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tv   Hardball With Chris Matthews  MSNBC  August 3, 2011 2:00pm-3:00pm PDT

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force a deal only on their terms. so in the end, i don't think there's anything super about this committee. dylan? >> well presented, well analyzed, and well performed. it's a real pleasure to have you here, ari. i look forward to seeing you on the panel -- friday? >> yes. thank you, dylan. "hardball" is up next. the best defense is a good offense. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm crist matthews in washington. leading off tonight, them against us. from day one of barack obama's presidency, they have been coming for him. rush limbaugh said he wanted him to fail. mish mcconned said his number one goal was to make obama a one-term president. then came the ideological attacks. the tea party claimed obama was
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a big government socialist, there was something un-american about his health care plan. the attacks became ethnic, even raci with birthers questioning whether he was even born in the country. the same companies earning record profits by minimizing and squeezing their payrolls. now conservatives are going after the poor, saying they need to be taxed more, while asking the rich to contribute nothing. all the while charging obama with engaging in class warfather. they accuse obama of creating divisions when they went after him. that's our top story tonight. the same republicans talk about the need to cut spending during tough economic times. certainly some of them know history, that doing so now threatens to choke the fragile recovery, and you have to wonder if this doesn't bother them so much, so long as it helps to make obama a one-term president.
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and president obama is taking conservative stands on afghanistan, and buckle to republicans, but he's still the most progressive president since lbj. and across the aisle, is the country really ready for another texan in the white house? rick perry is making noise, and a lot of republicans want him in the race. finally, let me finish with the horror in somalia and what you can do about it. hour fineman is of course the huffington post media group's editorial director and joan wallish is editor in chief of "salon." i'm going back over who started this class warfare, this division in our country. senate majority leader mitch mcconned told national journal way back in october of 2010 that our top political priority over the next two years should be to deny president obama a second term. let's keep going with this rush limbaugh told sean hannity back when the president was inaugurated, that he wanted him to fail.
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let's listen. >> i shamelessly say, no, i want him to fail. if his agenda is a far left collectivism, as a conservative heartfelt december why would i want socialism to succeed. >> michele bachmann named her number one goal for 2012. let's listen to her. >> the all-important must-have for 2012 is this -- making barack obama a one-term president. >> howard fineman, what i'm hearing now in the aftermath of the debt fight is that president obama is somehow engaging in class warfare, divisive politics when from day one, from second one, the goal of the republican party of the right of corporate america, the tail party, the whole shebang has been eliminate this guy's presidency. it's been personal, it's been about him, and it's about hatred. >> well, i think that in a
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situation like that, people often think that, your political foes think that, but they didn't yoon to tail is out loud, we hate you, want to kill you politically. >> quite the way they did so brazenly as they did at the beginning. i was out there on the maul when the president was inaugurated. you thought that perhaps all of america was out there. there were 1.5 million people there, but it wasn't all of america. it was barack obama's america, and the people on the right, the conservatives, the corporate leaders for the most part decided from day one that that crowd that they saw in the maul and that president they saw taking the oath was not their president. >> it was like the secessionists, the way you said that, the way you phrased it was almost as even as if he was being inaugurated, the voices in sell says in the south were planning to bring 24 guy down, divide. >> that's my view of it. i think the president maid some efforts to reach out.
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i don't know how wholeheartedly he did. i think he felt from the beginning that his overtures would be rejected. the way the things started here in washington from the very beginning was quite icy and distant from 9 get-go in the beginning of the obama presidency. >> and the positive side of that day, as i well remember it was the first time real washington joined in the national celebration, the whole city came -- >> it turns out a lot of people weren't celebrating. >> to joan walsh on that point, the partisanship. i hate to say it, the racial part of this later, it seems to me the enemies of barack obama didn't need to be told this is class warfare or divisive politics. they were ready to go after this guy for his very being from day one. >> yes, they absolutely would. i would differ from howard in just a bit. he was more conciliatory. you're in washington, but i just remember the president holding a dinner, the president-elect
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holding a dinner for john mccain to honor john mccain. i believe the night before the inauguration i thought how wonderful it is. they had a very spirited battle, it got ugly at times, but john mccain has served his country in many capacities, and this is the way it's going to be in a barack obama. i am to his left. i've always made that clear. i don't always like his conciliatory, but you can't say he didn't try from the beginning from the campaign. he talked about creating obama-kins. he was more moderate than hillary clinton. he was not a firebrand, not the socialist, so this attack really came out of no where, is really ideological, and very deliberately an effort to undermine him. >> my executive producer has said for a while that the republicans cannot stand the idea of a democrat being
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president. i was thinking how that goes back to eisenhower. when did they first lay claim to the united states presidency? let's go to some other points. back in 2009, president obama addressed the congress on his health care plan. here's south carolina's republican congressman joe wilson shouting out the wonderful words we'll never forget. let's listen. >> the reforms i'm proposing would no apply to those who are illegal. >> you lie! >> wonderful talk, "you lie." first-term tea party -- another joe of illinois calling the president to quit lying. let's listen. >> president obama, quit lying. you know darn well that if august 2nd comes and goes, there's plenty of money to pay off our debt and cover our -- all of our social security obligation, but have you no shame, sir? in three short years, you've bankrupted this country and
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destroyed job creation. you're either in over your head, you don't understand what makes this country great, or your hellbent in turning us into some european big government wasteland. >> you know, there's another part of this, the ad hominem part, that he's not just a democrat, that he's faintly foreign. even mitt romney has referred to him as he's awfully european. what is this? >> congressman walsh also saying you don't understand what makes america great, the implication being that you're somehow not an american, because op americans can really understand what makes this country great. i do think that our politician and the discourse has coorsen coorsened -- coarsened over the years. there's a personal edge that you don't usually see.
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there's something for which these people the presidents just sticks in their craw in a way. it's not that they have accepted him and rejected him. they never accepted him from the beginning. >> yeah. >> that was the difference with george w. bush, for example, who, after 9/11, had the whole country gather around him, however momentarily, and everyone accepted him as leader for that moment, and then he lost a lot of his political capital. this president, he never started with the full-out assent of the whole country. >> he could be mighty mouse every day saving the day, like in the cartoon, could be catching bin laden every two hours, and these people wouldn't think he was worst much. worth much. >> one thing i think we're leaving out, perhaps inadvertently because we've talked about it, remember dick
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cheney's attacks. he's -- you know, he's been a strong president in that way, but really untrust worthy from the beginning. the only thing i would add, to go back to your brilliant executive producer, all your staff is brilliant, he's right. this also goes back to bill clinton, because bill clinton had his problems, but the effort to delegitimize him, to say he was involved with running drugs, to say he was involved with murder, with poor vince foster that was coming from jerry falwell, coming from the arkansas project, even coming from congress, it was similar. it wasn't the same, but it was similar. there was a real dehumanization of this man as our leader. he just wasn't fit, and he could be accused of literally anything, anything -- and it tore the country. >> it's funny, you guys, the worst thing the left can say is
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they're not american. they just call them idiots. i'm serious. that seems to be the worst you can say about a right-winger. the worst thing to say about a left-winger, he's not one of us. let's not forget he was number one in the polls, here he is using the term saying he conned us into believing he was a citizen. this is the donald trump thought here. >> i would like to have him show his birth certificate, and can i be honest with you? i hope he can. because if he can't, if he can't, and if he wasn't born in this country, which is a real possibility. i'm not saying it happened. i'm saying it's a real 30b89, much greater than i though two, three weeks ago, he's pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics. >> there he is betting on black and it came up red bad call there. >> you made such a great point about the fact that when
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democrats attack from the left, they said george w. bush is not up to the job, he's shrunk in office, not grown in office. he misspent money, started on the wrong path, but they never really questioned obviously whether he was an american or questioned his patriotism, whether he somehow at some level understood what america was all about, even if he was wrong in all his policies. that's not the case here. there's a fundamental threshold that for a third of the country, barack obama never crossed. again it's not a matter of losing something. he never crossed it. >> he never got it. >> it may partly be because of race or the name, all the rumors about islam, so forth, but for whatever reason he never crossed that. here's orrin hatch, fighting for his life against a tea party threat, i suppose, saying he was tired of the president arguing for shared sacrifice. this is something new. adding to this class warfare we're hearing from the right, they started it.
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here's proof, orrin hatch saying we've got to tax the poor more. let's listen. >> i'm getting a little tired of hearing the obama approach. the top 1% in the so-called wealthy pay 38% of all income taxes. the other side just spends and spence and spends, and they want to tax and tax and tax so they can spend some more. my gosh, bhr we going to wake up and realize they're spending us into oblivion? i hear how they're so caring for the poor and so forth. the poor need jobs. they also need to share some of the responsibility. >> they need to share some responsibility. tax the poor, joan. that's a new anthem. i've never heard that in politi politics. for a long time i've heard the republican party be restrained about let's go sock it to the poor. this is a new one from orrin hatch. >> right. and it was a bipartisan program,
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under the first george bush, the earned income tax credit that said we're creating a lot of low-wage jobs, we don't know what's going on, a lot of people are working hard, but they're still poor, so a republican began funneling people money, cutting their taxes, and that was accepted. milton friedman thought this was a good idea, but now that's socialism. that's how far this country has come, that it's time to bash the hard-working poor people who aren't making enough to get out of poverty rather than help them. it's so mean-spirited. >> in terms of party, partisanship, in terms of ethnicity, the squeezing of the labor force, not just bringing in new hires, but to squeeze the people who are working, that's how we avoid recession. and now citizen united a call by supreme court that they could use all their power on television, in this medium, this is an assault on barack obama and they dare say he's being divisive? >> i keep calling it a
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slow-motion secession. with the implications of orrin hatch is saying we aren't all responsible for each other in the end. he's right. have we spent inwisely sometimes? yes. is spending out of control? no doubt. but that's accept. what orrin hatch is saying we question we're all in the same boat together at this point, that 134 people have conned us some people are in it for the common good, and questioning the motives of poor people who are bakley only trying to get by is not generally something you have heard from politicians. >> and i don't think it will sell in utah in the long run, either. that's not the culture. thank you. thank you, howard fineman and joan walsh. we agree. >> thank you. coming up, i've been saying for months that president obama is vulnerable for the
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scranton-oshkosh corridor as i call it. he's getting in the bus, gus, hitting in the road fighting back against republicans who want to keep the economy in the ditch. this is going to be something. he's trying to offset the costs of cutting that spending. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. that works at the molecular level to help your engine run more smoothly by helping remove deposits and cleaning up intake valves. so when you fill up at an exxon or mobil station, you can rest assured we help your engine run more smoothly while leaving behind cleaner emissions. it's how we make gasoline work harder for you. exxon and mobil. a network of possibilities. in here, the planned combination of at&t and t-mobile would deliver our next generation mobile broadband experience to 55 million more americans, many in small towns and rural communities, giving them a new choice.
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we'll deliver better service, with thousands of new cell sites... for greater access to all the things you want, whenever you want them. it's the at&t network... and what's possible in here is almost impossible to say. right on the heels of that fight over the debt ceilings, the senate has brought in although stalemate, this one involving the federal aviation administration. 4,000 faa employees are out of work and airport safety inspectors are working without pay, because democrats and republicans can't agree on a financing extension. republicans have offered to extend funding, but want to slash funds to rural airports. democrats are saying republicans are trying to make it harder for airline workers to unionize. we'll have transportation secretary ray lahood on "hardball" tomorrow night to talk about it. we'll be right back.
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welcome back to "hardball." republicans may have gotten their way in the debt ceiling fight, something they won in many ways, but is there any evidence that cutting spending is the way to revive this slagging economy? senator casey, i guess there's a battle that's over, and i'm just wondering who won. when you cut spending, usually that's a sign you cut jobs. is that your view? >> well, chris, i don't think there's any question, when i talked with people in pennsylvania, they want us to cut spending. we cut by a report amount in the 2011 budget, we will be cutting as a result of this recent agreement. i think the debate now will be when you propose budget cuts, what effect does it have on the economy? but also what's the difference between a smart cut and one that hurts investments and jobs? and i think that's where some of the debate it.
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i think they did see a different this spring where they cut medical research by a billion. that's a bad idea. when they slash law enforcement by hundreds of millions of dollars, that's a bad idea, so i think the debate will -- but how we do that. is president obama viewed in pennsylvania as an aggressive or passive democrat? >> it's hard to categorizes it, but i think pennsylvania right now has kind of a mixed point of view about the president, and i think that's a result mostly of where we are in the economy. when i go across the state, people say focus on jobs, work things out, and try to come together and compromise. if we do that, especially those of us who happen to be democrats, i think we'll do just fine, but right now is a tough time for the country. people are leading tough lives,
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and we've got to be able to understand that if we're going to be effective at leading them. that's what i hear, about spending and getting things done. >> today's august 3rd, 2011, senator. what's the federal government doing today? what's the obama administration, the president, doing today besides taking a bus trip to create jobs? what program is hiring people, putting people to work, coming up with public works project? where is all that happening? i just don't see it happening. >> chris, i think we made a good decision last year, and it actually was bipartisan to use the tax code, the payroll tax cut was a very good idea. i think it had a very positive impact in the early months of the year where we're getting private setter growth the 220, 230, 240 every month. that worked well, i think. i think the earned income tax credit, using the tax code is one way to create jobs. i would hope, and i'm not sure
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our republican friends would go along with it, but i would hope we can't come up with a focus and targeted but effective infrastructure program. i think in pennsylvania, you know our state well, at both ends of our state and in the middle as well, we've got a lot of jobs and a lot of activity around medical research, the life sciences, a tax credit like that i think is a good idea, but i think there's still some work to do to either reinstitute strategies that have worked to create jobs, but also introduce new ideas. >> the problem, senator, is the first three months created 200,000 job jobs a month. last month it was 18,000. >> you're right. >> i just hope the news coming out friday is another turnaround. we need another one. thank you, senator bob casey, senator from pennsylvania. >> thank you, chris. talking about the uphill battle across the rustbelt, is
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chris silizza. cillizza. he's sees as sort of a sherrod brown labor democrat. president obama is not like that. tell us what his problems is in terms of political connection with rustbelt guys and women and a lousy jobs outlook which the business community isn't do much about despite the bush tax cuts? >> chris, let's start with the 2008 presidential primaries process. ohio, pennsylvania, hillary clinton won, it's not as those these areas have ever been great for barack obama. yes, pennsylvania by double digits, ohio by five, more of that was the national wave. to your point, why is it tough? these are older states. these are whiter states in terms of overall population these are
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states. >> we're looking at pennsylvania to wisconsin. >> michigan, throw iowa a bit in there. you know, all of those states -- indiana, illinois in the northeastern corner, all these are places where the economy is very, very tough. now, the economy is tough, of course, across the nation, but these are places where the manufacturing sector has either disappeared or taken a massive hit. they feel the economic age site and pressures more. they were never totally sold on barack obama to start. i think that's an important point. >> but that's news, this is this week, one of the reasons the market dropped this week is because the bad manufacturing numbers in the older industrial states where people are old -- is obama seen as a guy looking out for medicare for the people who don't have the money to go to arizona or florida or wherever. >> i would say going to this trigger, this super committee if they can't decide on these tax
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cuts, that old jack murtha district southwestern, pennsylvania, one of the things he was known for was bringing defense money into that district. so it's knolls as simple. it could be in the places in that region in that region can't decide if it was bad for barack obama, defense and medicare. >> we don't have time to go through the poll numbers. >> that is the battleground bottom line, isn't it? >> look, your scranton-oshkosh thing was true in 2010, it will be true in 2012. just four states, ohio, michigan, pennsylvania, and indiana, 64 electoral votes,
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chris. that's one quarter of the 270 you need. he won all of those states in 2008. he doesn't need all of them in 2012, but he'll need some. the argument in favor for him is history. the last time a democrat was george herbert walker bush. if you look back at history, it would suggest that democrats will rally to the cause by the end. but barack obama would rather have his number be higher than lower at the moment. >> i think you're optimistic. i don't think history is much of a guide right now. i think people are angry, but you know as much as i do. >> never. >> thank you, chris. what's up on the satan sandwich? he's going to add to that. he elaborates on his big metaphor. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. important phone call i made.
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back to "hardball." now to the site show. first up the most unforgettable description of the debt ceiling agreement might just be the quote -- satan's sandwich. cleaver now seems to have turned it into an entire meal, which he described on "morning joe" today. let's listen. >> you've got a bit of sourdough on one side of the sandwich for poor people, and then you have some onions for, you know, people who are unemployable benefits. you of course serve it with a demon drink. >> i'm not sure i want to know what's in a demon drink. up next, it's known that
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richard nixon was no natural on tv, but we know he did try to solicit some help. now up for auction by his former joke writer is a ten-page long critique that he requested to help his on-camera image back before he ran again in '67. some of the highlights s. quote, loose financialer hanging downward from bent wrists moving toward the camera in a swimming motion are confusing and have grotesque connotations. quote, his frequently clenched fists indicate tension, even bling reins. a greasy preparation to keep his hair in place gives a slick, foreign look, unbecoming in his role. no sugar coating in those recommendations. the pages also suggest that he exercise, quote, a more pleasant facial expression. wow. up next, progressives say they're unhappy with president obama for folding on the debt deal. does the left realize that at
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his core, he is the most liberal president since lbj? we'll argue that when we come back. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. labored breathing ] [ coughing continues ] [ gasping ]
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i'm hampton pearson with your cnbc market wrap. stock snapping a losing trike with techs leading the way dow jones industrial average gaining 29 points, s&p adding 6, the nasdaq surging 23 points. the dow and the s&p were playing follow the leader, as gains for google, apple and intel helped lift is the nasdaq. we have research in motion jumping almost 5% after unveiling five new blackberry models. mastercard soaring more than 13% today the. activision reporting after
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the closing bell, blowing past estimates. in economic news, service sector growth slowed in june to the lowest level since february. while private employers added more jobs than expected in july, the number of planned layoff climbed to a 16-month high. that's it from cnbc world first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." liberals say they're unhappy with the president for what they see as folding, but he's also being hated by conservatives. they call him a socialist. doesn't the left understand they have a progressive president? we'll argue about that right now. joining me is jonathan alter, and alex wagner. john, you have a lot of history
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under your belt. this guy's a progressive, the stimulus package was pure keynesian economics, pure roosevelt. it was aggressive industrial policy, and clearly the health care bill, the first since trouping to deliver on a longtime progressive goal. then to afghanistan where he went right of the middle. he's sticking in there in force, and the bush tax cuts where it's very hard to read while we have tax cuts in the well off. we still have bush's tax policy. is the shot he's too conservative from the left right? >> i don't think it is. liberals have to be careful about making these kinds of charges when hubert humphrey was too centrist for them, they sat on their hands in 1968, and we got nixon. when carter was too centrist, we got the teddy kennedy challenge
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which helped sink him in 1980, so you have to look at the report. the record is most lid quite progressive until his reaction to the mitt terms. then he made a conscious decision to move abruptly to the center to start talking more about deficit reduction, than about stimulus, and he took his eye off jobs. i think that might have cost him. >> did he think the recovery was under way? or did he get the numbers wrong? bob casey, senator from pennsylvania was just talking about it. we all have a.d.d. in this country. the first of the year looked pretty good. the second quarter was terrible, we have an 18,000 new jobs last month. we don't know what will happen this friday. did he get the idea we're already rolling in the recovery? alex, did he get the idea we're rolling in the recovery, therefore could start to put the
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brakes on? >> forget the car in the ditch metaphor. it he said -- >> the tide has turned. >> and now unemployment is ticking back up. i think to the earlier points, look, it is about jobs, and vis-a-vis the base? loose what's happens with the black and hispanic communities? 16.2% unemployment among the black community? there is a real feeling, if not that he's a tool of the right, people are mea do recallized. i think the white house loves talking about inflection points, this was an inflection point. i think the debt war changed a lot of people's perceptions about what he's capable of. >> is he capable of turning the country's direction to the issue of jobs? even though a 1.7 trillion $deficit, it may be time for the government to creates jobs even with that deficit? all i hear is about trade with
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korea and green jobs, i don't see anything in terms of a big push for jobs. >> i think there's a create activity gab action and working the problem harder. i floated an idea recently that's been a around for a while, too, to allow those who are getting unemployment compensation to turn that into a voucher, to take to an employer, and say, if you hire me, you know, $40,000 job will only cost you $20,000, because i can use the unemployment voucher with no extra costs. it doesn't have to be a big spending programs. there might be problems in terms of workability, but they need to think of things like that to do what franklin roosevelt suggested -- bold, persistent experimentation, take one method and try it. if it doesn't work, try something else, but try something. that was the new deal, and we're missing that spirit right now. >> we're talking about the president who just announced
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today, the white house did, and conveyed that he's going to get in a bus and drive around the midwest. he is vulnerable i would think to picketing, shouts from the crowd. >> sure. >> we don't want you on the bus here. we want construction jobs. we want the roads and bridges fixed. we don't want you campaigning this august. >> yeah, and there's a bit of hucks terrism to it. i think to jonathan's earlier point -- >> what does the phrase green jobs mean? >> renewables. if we see obama? another battery plant, i think everybody is ready to give up on wind, solar and hydro. the idea that that will pull us out of the ditch we remain in. i was talking with emanuel cleaver earlier this week, and we were saying, look, there's
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bound to be disappointment, but at the end of the day, people don't understand what these green jobs are. if that's the only plan he has, i think the white house is in serious trouble. >> what stops them, jon, from proposing -- why don't they have a well-advertised program to put 2 or 3 million people to work on public works projects. put out a list of bridges below closed nationwide, all the subway systems, put out the lest, on numbs, on tv, show it, use the advertising ability, and say we want these jobs done. it's the republicans who are stopping it. let's talk about it in the next election. at least they put out in public what they would like to do. i don't know what the president would like to do. >> i think that's a great idea, you know, they rejected direct hiring, wpa-type programs at the beginning, for very good reasons, but they should lay down a marker that they're going to do what it takes to proposal
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big, bold ideas. the american associate of civil engineers issued a report that said if we don't fix or infrastructure, it's going to cost hundreds of billions in productivity over the years, because a great nation must have a great infrastructure, but they have to stop talking about its, quote infrastructure. it doesn't mean anything to people. it should be we want to put people back to work rebuilding this country. the other side doesn't. frame the issue squarely. >> why do we have a penn station in new york fit for rats to go on, really a dump. the ugliest train station in the world, probably, and was once penn station, now it's a dump. we have the l.a. airport, which is the ugliest older airport in the world i think compared to south africa's airport. you go to europe they go 300 miles an hour on trains, we go 50 miles an hour 789 has anybody done a comparison of how we live compared to the rest of the
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world? in china they 2, 300 miles an hour. everything here is old and out of date, and republicans say we don't like the public sector. who will take responsibility for it if not the democrats? just a thought. jonathan, you know history. alex, you're too young. there's a lot of noise lately about rick perry. is this guy all talk? all hat, no cattle? certainly a lot of talk and a lot of hat. it looks like he's the new kid on the block. this is "hardball," only on msnbc. [ melody ] the bar is raised for everybody in an ap class, from the teachers to the students. i had a student the other day that said... "miss stacy, this class is changing the way that i look at things."
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sparking that interest and showing them that math and science are exciting... it's why i teach. ♪ i know they can, even when they think they can't. look at these incredible pictures from egypt. that's ousted president hosni mubarak on a hospital gurney in a cage in a cairo -- there he is. he faces charges of complicity in the killing of protesters earlier this year, as well as corruption charge. mubarak was forced to resign in february after a stunning 18-day uprising against his rule.
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the praise? yes or no. let's bottom line this thing. wayne, this guy runs, he immediately threatens romney in the south because he is aisti christian conservative. he is not mormon so for those who don't want to elect an lds mormon guy. he is more of an executive than romney. up north 234 minnesota, he immediately challenges michele bachmann. who is very charismatic, i would say be but doesn't have the executive behind him like this guy does. he becomes the hottest for the republican party at threat of through the fall. >> yeah, absolutely. i think he will run. >> will he be the hottest property in the republican property before the enemy gets tested, of course? eventually the testing comes? >> he will be and for the exact reason you said.
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he has this dual advantage. on the one hand he is a jobs guy. the jobs count, economy counts. on the other hand the social conservative who after bachmann does fairly well in iowa, which is possible, is the kind of candidate who can win south carolina. if he wins south carolina, then and can encourage the base of the party the more establishment base of the party to jump on board, he absolutely is important. i realize that's early next year but between now and the vetting pros receives november, december, he is the top guy of the race. >> i looks like the treasury secretary obama should have. the john connolly type. you know, the guy who looks like he makes money, the kind who never had any money, he looked like he did. >> he is a presidential candidate right ou of central tafting. that's why in texas they call him good hair perry because he is almost cheesy. >> how about below the hair, how is he inside? >> not that good. he is not that popular in texas.
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>> hutchison may not agree with you, she was ran out of the race by this guy. >> governor perry had to go far, far, far to the right and get in bed with the radical right wing and tea party folks in order to beat her. >> how does that work for 2012? is it the 2012 republican party? >> yes. >> lawrence o'donnell was making the point on our network with a thing we did in california with the critics. the party move sewed far over that it is a different party. >> yes. >> and a tea party more than a conservative party. and someone like this guy could be perfect through this year. >> he could be the problem is that it is about an inch deep. even just in may he authorized -- >> you are not going to cut him a break. why don't you wait until after the nomination. here is rick perry. i want these guys in in the race. here is rick perry with obama's policies. the national telegraph today, perry says quote this president is trying to engage in class warfare and shooting high-powered bullets -- don't use these references -- at
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people who have corporate jets, but the bullets hit those wealthy individuals who risk capital to create the jobs. don't they know in texas to stop using bullets as reference point for presidential candidates? i'm sorry. stop it. >> it bothers me as well. i tell you, the kind of rhetoric, that kind of rhetoric, as you said, is the rhetoric that will win the primary -- could win, the nomination, next year for the republicans. rick perry has run a primary race. all these things whether it appeals to christian conservatives or rhetoric against obama, all a dog whis toelt constituencies that name the nominee. then he will worry about the general. >> yeah. you think? >> do you think he has the message that sells on the right? >> i think he -- the far right absolutely for right now. the question is, if he gets anywhere -- if he can stand the scrutiny of a presidential campaign which i don't think he
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can. >> you advance that question. >> yes. >> if he is the man for the fall -- if he is mr. october, mr. november, mr. december. if he sweeps into the early primaries, it could be the bef break president obama's ever gotten. untested opponent then he can take down. >> boxed himself so far to the right and frankly could be paying disingenerous as that. this guy chard al gore's presidential campaign at one time in texas. you know, just past, you know, $10 billion debt increase in the state of texas in may. >> good stuff. good research. thank you. eric burns, thanks for joining us. wayne, as always wib love the previewes from down there. when we return, serious business we haven't talked about. i will do it tonight. we aught to be focusing on the worst part of the world right now, somalia. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc.
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well, let me finish tonight with a prt of the world that is having a truly horrible time. right now the region of somalia, you can't really call it a country, is experiencing some of east africa's worst draughts of modern times. this adds to the desperate situation. the area of worst draught is under the control of forces loyal it al qaeda making it a triple wammy of devastation. the u.s. government declared that no one will be punished for
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helping the starving people in somalia or facing indirectly the terrorists who rule the fapinned area. look at these people. the situation is that bad. bad enough to see past the terrorist loyalties of the insurgens, to the people themselves suffering miserableably from it. we are talking millions of people. three million of our fellow humans, with loss of food and medicine necessary to sustain life. the pictures tell the story. young kids starved to the bone. mothers watching it. living with the whithering death of their own children. maybe this is the future of this planet. i sometimes wonder if what we are watching here is the unending interestedtory growth of the sahara desert p.m. poem trying to find life on less and less formidable land. we need to help people to keep them from starving to death. children in their mother's arms. if you want to help, one of the best agencies to get

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